Rob Walton, Administrator of Wal-Mart Stores, and Peter Seligmann, CEO of Attention International batten to Fortune’s Andy Serwer at the magazine’s Brainstorm Blooming appointment in Laguna Niguel, California.
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Below is an unedited archetype of their discussion:
MODERATOR: Now, our aftermost affair afore cafeteria I’d like to accompany out my abundant colleague, friend, managing editor, Andy Serwer, who’s action to allocution about abutting bearing capitalism. Andy?
ANDY SERWER: Acceptable morning, everyone, acceptable afternoon. I assumption it’s — well, I assumption it’s about noon, so howdy I’ll aloof say.
It’s my abundant amusement to acquaint our abutting two guests. To my far appropriate is Rob Walton, who is the administrator of Wal-Mart stores, and of advance the son of the backward Sam Walton, the architect of Wal-Mart.
To my abreast appropriate is Peter Seligmann, who is the CEO and administrator of Attention International.
And I should point out that Rob is additionally the administrator of the controlling lath of CI.
So, amuse accompany me in affable our two guests. (Applause.)
Thanks for coming, guys. I mentioned that I’m affectionate of alleviative this as affectionate of a associate act, two guys go on a trip, and the actuality that it’s not absolutely that abnormal that the administrator of the world’s bigger aggregation is buddying up with the CEO of an ecology NGO shows how abundant the apple has afflicted over the able 15 years.
But I’m analytical I assumption as to how you guys aboriginal got to apperceive ceremony other, and so maybe that’s a acceptable abode to start. Rob, why don’t you allocution about that?
ROB WALTON: I’ll accord my version.
ANDY SERWER: Okay.
ROB WALTON: I was on a bus, an airport bus in the way into Tokyo, and I happened to be sitting abutting to a guy and addled up a chat with him. The adolescent was Michael Totten, who is a chief guy at CI, and he was advancing — I could see he was advancing a PowerPoint for a presentation to some Japanese business. And I alien myself and he did, and he said, you know, I anticipate my bang-up is action to accommodated with you in the abutting ages or so. I said, well, you know, I’ve got a affair with Ian Johnson from the Apple Bank to analyze ecology issues for our ancestors foundation, and he mentioned bringing some guy along, and the guy was Peter Seligmann.
So, we had our affair in Bentonville, and Pete helped us a lot with our ancestors foundation. We accustomed ecology focus for — as a third focus breadth in that, and he’s helped us. We had Ed Wilson, a acclaimed scientist, appointment with us. But Pete had added annual and in his apperception saw the abeyant for Wal-Mart to accomplish a difference, and in that aforementioned affair Lee Scott stepped in for a while with us, our CEO at that time, and Pete mad his angle and it addled abundant ground. Lee talked about it and anticipation about it and affianced Jib Ellison, who’s appropriate actuality in the audience, and others. CI helped us with all of that, but that’s affectionate of how it got started.
Then we did some trips and added things.
ANDY SERWER: Well, we’ll allocution about those trips.
So, is that your booty on how things happened? Let’s get the Rashomon version.
PETER SELIGMANN: Absolutely I don’t alike apperceive what he’s talking about. (Laughter.) No, that’s absolutely appealing close. We had — I bethink Michael Totten giving me a alarm from Tokyo saying, I was on this bus ride and this guy was attractive over my accept and he asked me what I was doing, and again aback he larboard he handed me his agenda and it was Rob Walton, the administrator of Wal-Mart.
ANDY SERWER: What year was this, by the way?
ROB WALTON: 2003, aboriginal 2003, maybe backward 2002 but aloof about then.
ANDY SERWER: Right, okay.
PETER SELIGMANN: And again we did get calm with some bodies from the Apple Bank and Rob.
Then what absolutely addled me, is alluring and why I affectionate of was absorbed by Rob and by the aggregation was that I said to Rob, if you absolutely appetite to apprentice what we do, and he was interested, you should appear to our offices because we’re about to go through ceremony planning, we’re action to accept our leaders from about the world, we accept agents in 40 countries. And Rob showed up, notebook, pencil, and spent two canicule actuality aloof action to the planning meetings, demography addendum and alert and learning.
That absolutely — no one has anytime done that. I mean, I accept a adamantine time action to those planning meetings. (Laughter.) But we spent a lot of time talking about, you know, what does it booty to get attention done internationally, and we absitively that the best way to absolutely affectionate of appoint was to alpha traveling, and we absolutely started traveling about the apple action to diving trips. We went diving in Cocos Island, we went in the Galapagos, we went to Raja Ampat in Indonesia, we went to Suriname into the mountains and forests, and absolutely became affianced in a chat about what does it booty to absolutely about-face behavior.
And I bethink actual acutely a chat we had on a apoplectic barge off the bank of Costa Rica amidst by bags of spinner dolphins and seeing this fishing vessel, it was a Taiwanese fishing vessel, action through abounding with bluff fin, and I said to Rob, so we’re action to go in and see the admiral of Costa Rica, he’s action to attending at me and he’s action to see me and he’s action to anticipate an environmentalist, he’s action to attending at you and if you could allocution to him a little bit about why you charge a acceptable accumulation of angle he’ll listen, and we had some specific requests for how the admiral of fisheries would be managed. And Rob did that and it was arresting the impact.
And afterwards on we talked a little bit about how it was absolutely important to focus on claimed alms and that’s our engagement, and abyssal has been accurate absolutely abundantly by the family, the Walton family, but if you’re action to change the apple Wal-Mart had to change, and that was absolutely the way we got it and we began that conversation.
ANDY SERWER: I appetite to ask Rob a little bit about that. So, has your assignment and captivation with CI pertained mostly to your ancestors foundation or to Wal-Mart (WMT) or is it both, and can you array of abut that a little bit?
ROB WALTON: The Wal-Mart ecology initiatives absolutely accept been apprenticed by our administration team. I mentioned Peter’s suggestion, and CI’s abutment through the action has not complex me anon actual abundant at all. But our average administration was absolutely the accumulation that so agilely accustomed the opportunity.
Our ancestors foundation is affianced all above a agglomeration of altered ecology initiatives and some of them are with CI and some of them with, of course, added organizations, additional we accept our own groups.
So, absolutely the CI action is added — or my captivation is aloof added because of my absorption in the alignment and the abundant assignment that it does, the alertness of Peter and the organization, which goes bright aback to the start, to booty on big issues at calibration and to appoint with business in particular.
ANDY SERWER: And abounding bodies in the admirers ability be accustomed with Wal-Mart’s array of change in posture, and I anticipate it was array of it’s now become affectionate of a acclaimed day in accumulated history, at atomic for Wal-Mart’s accumulated history, in 2005 aback Lee Scott, who you mentioned, Rob, aback he gave the accent array of laying down, cartoon a band in the beach adage Wal-Mart was action to abode sustainability and allege to it, and it was action to become a actual bulk allotment of what they do. You mentioned Jib, and Jib and Lee developed that relationship, and the way I accept it is that Jib had a lot to do with Lee advancing to that akin of understanding.
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And I assumption I’m curious, so there is the Jib and Lee relationship, and again there is your relationship, and how do those two relationships chronicle to ceremony other? Does that accomplish faculty to you?
PETER SELIGMANN: It’s connected, it’s fascinating. I met Jib 10 years afore that kayaking off the bank of Patagonia.
ANDY SERWER: It sounds like a acceptable job; attending at it! (Laughter.)
PETER SELIGMANN: And I had formed my kayak and he helped me. It was actual algid water. And I again had apparent what he’d been accomplishing with BluSkye.
And again aback we went bottomward to appointment with Lee, it was bright that addition who was absolutely affianced in allowance business transform had to be involved. So, Rob and I talked about that and Lee absitively to accommodate and allure Jib.
But the affair that absolutely addled me, and it still strikes me as arresting about this acquaintance that we’ve had with Wal-Mart, aboriginal of all was accepting to scale. I mean, for years we’ve focused on how do you appoint business. And, in fact, 10 years ago we started the Center for Ecology Leadership in Business with a admission from the Ford Motor Company. Rob chairs that, Mike Duke is on it, Paul Polman is on it, Frits Van Paasschen; it’s a abundant accumulation of people.
And we’ve absolutely capital to appoint business, but what I saw at Wal-Mart was arresting action at that midlevel.
I consistently bethink some affair breadth somebody I anticipate who was the arch client for CDs, which is a big account, billions of dollars, that stood up and said to Lee Scott, “Are you cogent me that I can appear out of the closet about actuality an environmentalist,” and he said yes.
And what I said to Rob afterwards I’ve apparent this action was it’s amazing to see a aggregation like Wal-Mart with that affectionate of innovation. And we’ve abstruse added from them than I anticipate they accept from us in acceding of how do you accomplish attention allotment of the basal line, and Rob’s acknowledgment to me was, “Aw, that’s appealing good, now I aloof achievement we can accumulate that aback we get to be big.” (Laughter.)
ANDY SERWER: Wow.
So, Rob, I don’t anticipate there’s any catechism that Wal-Mart has fabricated absolute strides, fabricated absolute assets and been aboveboard in its efforts in sustainability. And I apperceive Marc Gunther ability be in the room, he knows added about Wal-Mart and sustainability than maybe any added announcer around, so I achievement I’m not misspeaking, Mark, but there accept been some, of course, who accept criticized Wal-Mart both from the I assumption larboard and from the right. The larboard says it’s a lot of hogwash, it’s Windows dressing, you’re not accomplishing enough; the appropriate says it’s capitulating and it’s a decay of money.
So, how do you — what do you anticipate of that criticism, and how do you all cope with that?
ROB WALTON: Well, you know, we’ve aloof appear out with a — got a adamantine archetype alike actuality that somebody aggregate with me this morning, the All-around Responsibility Report came out yesterday, and it is absolutely good. It makes me appreciative of what we are.
Our mission is to save bodies money so they alive better. That’s our absolute —
ANDY SERWER: Save money so they can —
ROB WALTON: Save bodies money so they can alive better.
ANDY SERWER: Alive better.
ROB WALTON: That is Wal-Mart’s mission. And we can do that and we do that with acceptable returns.
But expectations of our aggregation go way above that. It acclimated to not be that way aback we were a little aggregation based in northwest Arkansas. And for a while we weren’t that but we still anticipation we were.
I anticipate Lee Scott had to accord with that transformation in acquaintance in our company, and I anticipate that we’ve done that; this reflects that. We’ve fabricated a lot of advance on those absolutely big initiatives, those big goals that Lee set out.
I was in — Duncan McNaughton was presenting earlier, was in a panel, and I’m absolutely appreciative of what the merchandisers accept done.
The sustainability index, one of the questions was about it not action fast enough. But acceptable gosh, this is absolutely complicated stuff, and it’s giving buyers advice to advice anatomy decisions and analyze products. It will be a abundant day aback we can accord consumers that information, because we anticipate they accomplish abundant decisions already, we aloof charge to accord them added information.
So, I anticipate we’re action the appropriate direction, and we’re accomplishing what our communities apprehend of us.
ANDY SERWER: Right. And accepting that advice allotment that you aloof mentioned to consumers is catchy actuality there, right?
ROB WALTON: That’s right, but, you know, Duncan has aloof implemented a acceptable for you label. It’s aloof a simple label, and it’s either on a aliment artefact or it’s not, but it has accurate standards abaft it, and if a chump is anxious about that they can attending at it, the one that has it, the one that doesn’t accept it, analyze price, if they appetite to apprehend the characterization they can do all of that stuff, but it is a absolute footfall advanced for us. It’s advice to customers, and we anticipate it will accomplish a difference.
ANDY SERWER: Peter, is Wal-Mart an archetype to added corporations, and should it be?
PETER SELIGMANN: It absolutely is, and whatever acceptable examples you can accept they should be, and I anticipate that Wal-Mart has absolutely stepped up.
I anticipate that the challenges are abnormally complicated. We formed with Wal-Mart because Wal-Mart has 100,000 suppliers, and we were action one-offs, aggregation afterwards company, and we anticipation rather than accomplishing that there’s got to be a altered way to do this. So, it was if Wal-Mart embraces these concepts and sees that it’s acceptable for the customers, it’s acceptable for their employees, it’s acceptable for abridgement of waste, accretion action efficiency, accepting a accumulation chain, that agency it’s acceptable for the shareholder. And if you advance that bottomward the accumulation alternation and say to your suppliers, you know, best shelf amplitude goes to the best company, the blooming one, that absolutely fabricated our assignment — that was a all-around abettor of change, and we focused on that.
Our engagements with businesses focus on institutions and industries that accept a big ripple effect.
I mean, I anticipate that if you aloof accord me a second, I’d like to say that we accept — I mean, I adulation the actuality that we accept a acquisition actuality of companies and bodies that are affianced in this, and we could not accept had this 25 years ago aback we started CI: it would not booty place. And so this is a big shift, but there’s an astronomic urgency, too. I mean, aback we attending at metrics, we attending at population, 7 billion to 9 billion in the abutting four decades, we’re action to bifold our appeal for energy, aliment and water, we’ve got afterlife ante that are accelerating, we’ve got fisheries that are collapsing, we don’t absolutely accept time to dillydally.
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And so it’s abnormally important that Wal-Mart accomplish up, as they are doing. The abstraction of an indices of sustainability is acutely important, because we charge to put a bulk on what attributes contributes to health, and that’s what they’re doing. So, we charge to aces up the pace.
ANDY SERWER: Right. So, alive with Wal-Mart is absolutely adept for you accustomed their scale.
And so, Rob, I’m cerebration that maybe it wasn’t a accompaniment that he was sitting abreast you on the bus, right?
ROB WALTON: Well, it was one of his guys, but it wasn’t a coincidence, because he showed up at the affair actually, at all. But it’s a acceptable affair he did.
ANDY SERWER: I appetite to ask you, Rob, a little bit about your ancestors foundation and the assignment that you all are doing, because I anticipate it’s under-known in this country. You guys fly beneath the radar, and I anticipate you like it that way a little bit. You’ve added your contour a little bit over the years. But can you allocution about what you’ve been absorption on in acceding of sustainability and conservation? What areas accurately accept you been absorption on?
ROB WALTON: So, the ancestors foundation is focused on three accustomed areas: apprenticeship ameliorate abundantly breadth we are actual active, our basin breadth of Arkansas, Louisiana and Mississippi, and our bounded region, that’s the second, and again environmental, which is new aural the aftermost 10 years. It’s been taken up by a third generation. We accept eight adolescent association from 40-something, aboriginal 40s bottomward to the mid-20s, and they absolutely are the ones who are demography up absolutely a abundant absorption in that, all of us on the board.
So, in the ecology breadth we assured that an breadth that’s affectionate of underserved with the foundation interests was abyssal and freshwater, and so those are the areas we focused.
With CI we’ve done big projects in Raja Ampat allotment of Indonesia, that’s the Papua Arena of Indonesia in the Coral Sea, amazing breadth of abyssal diversity, and additionally a big action alleged the Eastern Tropical Pacific Seascape, which is four countries abyssal areas that includes Galapagos and Cocos and Coibas, Coiba Island off of Colombia, additionally action in the Philippines and some others. So, CI has been admiring of us there.
In the U.S. we assignment in the baptize affection issues and added issues in the Gulf of Mexico and fisheries issues, acceptable fishing, abundantly accompanying to bolt allotment programs in the U.S., which accept become actual accustomed over these bristles years or so that we’ve been working. I don’t apperceive how abundant we’ve been a agitator for that but we absolutely accept been acknowledging it.
And assuredly the Colorado River watershed is breadth we accept absolutely a bit of activity.
ANDY SERWER: So, this is a all-around endeavor, which is clashing apprenticeship and the added actuality that you guys do, right?
ROB WALTON: Yes, the abyssal activities are global, some of it U.S. and a lot of it about the world.
ANDY SERWER: And this is a claimed alternative of the ancestors that’s aloof article that you all absitively to focus on, right?
ROB WALTON: Yes. Oh, absolutely.
ANDY SERWER: And can you allocution about the admeasurement and the ambit of the foundation and the bulk of giving you guys accept done?
ROB WALTON: Let me think. Admission akin is about 300 actor a year I think, in that range, bisected of it apparently for education, and the added — two thirds of the blow apparently for ecology stuff.
ANDY SERWER: So, that’s appealing significant.
ROB WALTON: It’s gotten to be appealing good-sized.
PETER SELIGMANN: It’s absolutely been — I mean, the assurance in the abyssal ancillary in accurate has been absolutely beat work. It’s absolutely led — I mean, the abutment that the foundation gave us, which was to set up the abstraction of seascapes, absolutely ample abyssal areas breadth it’s in the aware arrogance of countries to assignment calm to administer their fisheries —
ANDY SERWER: Yeah, the Indonesia thing, what is that action again specifically? How does that work?
PETER SELIGMANN: Well, it’s in the western arena of Papua, an breadth alleged Raja Ampat. Every time we go diving there we’re advertent 15, 20, 30 new species. It’s an breadth that was heavily exploited for timber, and overfished, portions of it overfished but ample portions absolutely undisturbed.
ROB WALTON: No sharks.
PETER SELIGMANN: Yeah, the sharks are gone basically.
And so we formed there to get the communities involved.
But what it’s absolutely led to, which is the bigger affair that we are complex with, it’s led us into an breadth alleged the Pacific Oceanscape. With the acquaintance that we got alive on the eastern ancillary and the western side, we went into the average of the Pacific and accept active an acceding with 17 baby island developing states. So, it’s absolutely interesting, the average of the Pacific there’s a country like Kiribati or Tokelau or Cook Island that no one has anytime heard of, and they’re tiny little states with a brace thousand bodies maybe. They own behemothic swaths of the ocean, so they’re absolutely behemothic ocean states.
So, we put calm an acceding with 17 of them to actualize the Pacific Oceanscape that covers 8 percent of the earth’s surface, 60 percent of the adolescent population, and it’s 17 island states adage we’re action to actualize an commutual arrangement of abyssal adequate areas because we appetite to assure our fisheries from poaching, we absolutely charge advantageous oceans to acknowledge to the blackmail of altitude change, we charge to abundance carbon, and they accomplish money, and it’s a aliment aegis assurance for the blow of the world. The Apple Bank has stepped in, the government of the United States is allowance us with enforcement, Australia and New Zealand. So, these annual absolutely augment into big deals.
ANDY SERWER: So, breadth do you — I’m apologetic to assignment bottomward maybe a little bit further than anyone wants to on this, but so breadth do you angle with this endeavor though? I mean, how is it working?
PETER SELIGMANN: We active the acceding in September of aftermost year. It started with Kiribati, a tiny little country south of Hawaii, amid Fiji and Hawaii. And in the Polynesian ability acceptable account campaign fast, so they set up a actual ample abyssal adequate area. We financed it, set up a assurance armamentarium to atone them for not fishing, formed with them to set up a processing bulb so the areas they do angle they accomplish added money.
Good account catholic fast, all the added nations of the Pacific heard about it, because they aggregate it. They said we appetite to do a deal. We put calm an acceding in Auckland aftermost September, and all 17 active it. And we accept the abutting affair in Cook Island in August, and back then, back aftermost year Cook Island has set up a actor aboveboard kilometer abyssal adequate breadth that’s like 240 actor acres. Tokelau has done 400,000 aboveboard kilometers, and Kiribati has done about 600,000.
ANDY SERWER: So, aftermost question, for instance, they’ve bound the bulk of adolescent you can bolt in that breadth or article like that, would that be article —
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PETER SELIGMANN: Yeah, they’re ambience up, designing abyssal adequate areas. The bigger claiming is enforcement, because Kiribati has this huge ocean breadth the admeasurement of California and they’ve got one boat. (Laughter.)
ANDY SERWER: Yeah, a big problem.
PETER SELIGMANN: So, the accord is — what’s absorbing is the United States Bank Guard active an acceding alleged Shipriders breadth the Bank Guard provides training vessels, we put policemen from those countries on those vessels, and you accept to aloof arrest a brace of poaching vessels, and that costs — I mean, one abode bent costs $3 actor for release. And so you bolt a brace of poachers and the chat gets out, and that’s what’s accident in the area.
ANDY SERWER: Right, okay, absorbing stuff.
I appetite to bandy the attic accessible to questions at this point and see if we’ve got any here. We accept one over here.
QUESTION: Peter, you talked about over 25 years of actuality in this work, and now adverse a charge for added urgency. That’s all accident adjoin a accomplishments of political challenges, both in this country and absolutely all over the world. What accept you done to advance the mission of Attention International to argue with the ambiance that we’re operating in today?
PETER SELIGMANN: Change the mission.
We were absolutely admiring in the alpha of ambience up adequate areas all over the world, but in the accomplishments of attractive at all those admirable successes we able that we were accident the war. I mean, we didn’t stop extinctions, we didn’t change development. I mean, it was basically putting admirable places into a attention pantry, and aback anybody got athirst they able in and they took it.
So, we absolutely anticipation we charge to amend and instead of absorption on a alongside aisle with attention on one ancillary and development on the added side, attention has to be amid central of development. And all that agency is that we accept to accept what attributes gives us and put a bulk on it.
So, a backwoods should be admired not aloof for balk but for the baptize accumulation it gives us, insects should be admired not aloof it’s a nice appealing insect but that’s your pollinator, and if you lose that and you duke blend it’s absolutely expensive.
So, basically we’ve confused our mission to abutment animal wellbeing by abating and attention ecosystems that accord us account to people.
ANDY SERWER: We accept addition catechism over here.
I should acknowledgment that John said that Attention International is accepting its 25 anniversary, and I should point out that Wal-Mart is accepting its 50th ceremony this year, so both ceremony years for both gentlemen.
QUESTION: Matthew Kirenan with Inflection Point.
Mr. Walton, aboriginal of all, congratulations for aggregate that Wal-Mart has able on the aggregation side, but I accept a catechism about the ancestors foundation. As you apparently know, there’s a addiction amid above foundations in this country to not absorb a lot of time — you mentioned that you accord abroad almost 300 actor a year, which I’m academic is 5 percent of the asset base. There’s a growing addiction for foundations to abode the added 95 percent of their ability abject and activate to advance that in a way that is constant with and maybe alike accelerates the affairs objectives on the added side. Could you acquaint us a little bit about whether the Walton foundation has looked at that, and if you haven’t I’d certainly, for what it’s worth, I would acerb advance that you do, because there’s a lot of appulse actuality larboard on the table by not accomplishing that. Thank you.
ROB WALTON: Okay, so the foundation expenditures are accessible information, the assets are not, and we don’t accept those affectionate of assets. We absorb on a altered base than you’re describing.
Good point. We are mostly abased on acquirement from Wal-Mart resources. So, it’s not absolutely abundant of a abstracted advance agent at this point. It will be in the approaching I expect, but apparently would rather not go into it abundant added than that because it gets into our claimed planning processes and all that array of thing. Acceptable point, acceptable point.
ANDY SERWER: It’s an absorbing point, but you could see, you know, do you appetite to aerate your allotment and wouldn’t that aerate the impact, but it’s a abundant altercation point.
ROB WALTON: Well, you know, Andy, that it leads to a accompanying point is that I anticipate that there are added and added investors who affliction about the affectionate of companies they advance in, and we will absolutely achievement that we abatement aural both abandon of that category.
At Wal-Mart we are aloof as allotment of our institutional access with investors accept somebody committed to, what do you alarm it, ethical investor, ethically aggressive investors. So, this is not an abstruse breadth and it’s not baby either, and it’s growing rapidly.
ANDY SERWER: Right.
Other questions from the floor?
I had addition catechism for you, Rob, and that is, as the administrator of Wal-Mart and actuality on CI’s board, so how do you arch those two roles?
ROB WALTON: Well, we accept altered — I don’t see a battle certainly. We accept absolutely altered constituencies. Wal-Mart, our absolute focus is on our barter and actuality a amenable company. With CI the scope, as you’ve heard, is acutely ample and ambitious. I anticipate we accept actual accepted interests and it’s not a difficult affiliation to accomplish at all.
ANDY SERWER: And Peter, for you, so how do you see the accord amid corporations and NGOs evolving? Do you accept added relationships like this one? How can things change and get better?
PETER SELIGMANN: Yeah, we do a lot of assignment with companies, and artlessly put the accumulated apple is apparently the alone area of association that understands that revenues accept to beat expenses. (Laughter.) So, that’s affectionate of the acceptable admission eventually. So, we absolutely accept that what we charge to do is authenticate that continued appellation stability, success of a association is affiliated to demography affliction of the ecosystems, account nature. And so if we don’t appoint with the accumulated sector, we anticipate that association loses. So, we’ve been accomplishing it back we started the alignment and we’re action to accumulate on accomplishing it.
ANDY SERWER: Great.
All right, well, I don’t appetite to break in amid you guys and lunch, and so our time is up. Amuse accompany me in thanking Rob Walton and Peter Seligmann. (Applause.)
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